Well...as Calculus (LOL) teach us, 4*5 makes 20 and 20+3 makes 23...
How many are using the Windows Calculator? I would like you to verify this simple, horrible thing!!
First of all, set to Scientific Calculator...alright?
OK, now try to write or use the buttons and make that simple operation...result = 23, like everybody studied from 1st grade :)...
Now CHANGE...go to Standard View and try the same operation...3+4*5 = ...35?
Ehy, how's that possible?

As you can see, the Windows Calculator has got two different parsers: one scientific parser and a "desperate housewives" parser :)...what's that for? Should people using Standard calculator use a different maths?
This little trick was showed in my class by a University professor...he says that this thing it's going on from Windows 3.1!!
Could someone try it with Windows Vista? :)

I don't hate Microsoft...but hey...Microsoft is asking to make me write against :PPP
Bye

LastHope

Have you seen the real (from plastic) calculator?

RunneR wrote:

Have you seen the real (from plastic) calculator?

And what does this mean?
I'm sorry, I didn't understand your question...
Bye

LastHope

LastHope wrote:

RunneR wrote: Have you seen the real (from plastic) calculator? And what does this mean? I'm sorry, I didn't understand your question... Bye LastHope

I understood after you wrote it...well, there is a big difference!! :)
First of all, simple calculators are an all-coded-cablated project...it's hard making a good calculator without enough memory and stack and so on :)
But we're talking of a software-calculator!! Why there was the need to make a simple calculator (like you had no memory,no stack) and a true calcolator (with operators priority and so on...)?
Making a program like that goes against Software Engineering (that's the advise of my professor): you have the logic of program that depends on the graphic interface...
Bye

LastHope

The Windows's calculator isn't MathLab, it's intended to have a real calculator's behavior. Most Windows's users are not Software Engineering professors and is this what they expect from calc.exe      
By the way I'm not a "desperate housewife", I use Windows since 1992, I've been a finalist in the IC 2005, and I'm REALLY surprised discovering that the calculator is able to correctly make algebraic sum in scientific mode (I've always used parenthesis without even trying 3+4*5). I don't think this will be modified in the future. If you don't like the built-in calculator nothing prevents you to install another one.      
Making a program like that goes FOR software engineering.      
An Engineer is a technologist, not a scientist, he must make software that solves people's problems in the most productive/economical way (an intuitive program saves money on personnel training), on the contrary he shouldn't develop cryptic programs that just another Engineer can understand; Microsoft is doing a superb job in this way and the whole IT community is recognizing that. I'm really proud studying in an University where professors doesn't make this kind of comments.

---

Hernán Lionel Cianfagna
Charter Member of the MCTS program in SQL Server 2005
MCP on Win 2k Server & ISA 2k Ent. Ed.
IC 2005 Finalist - ISEF 2001 Finalist
http://www.fmq.com.ar/

Now hold it! Cool down everyone.

As I see this, the normal calculator is made as stack with FIFO strategy (first-in-first-out). So, if you calculate, you calculate things easily and you wish your result imediatly. As in this case , it would first calculate 3+4 , you'll se the result, and then it multiplies with 5. And many people do this way, cause they actualy writte down on a paper some numbers. f.e.: prices (for a thing) and then the price for all things together, such methods have bars and local pubs :)

The better scientistic calculator it's actualy the real thing for harder and complicated calculations ( I mean for real mathematic :) So, the scientistic knows there are prioritizied operations such as multipliing, etc.

Well, LastHope... don't make an elephant out of a fly. I think that's how MS saw this calculator thing. And you're making just a big thing out of this, cause your professor is so clever and he saw 'the bug'. :P

g'night

---

.:. Don't hesitate to educate yourself .:.

There is something strange in what you're saying...you're telling me that this was made by purpose, because normal people don't know about operators priorities? That's some kind weird to my point of view....
BTW, why this wasn't explained? Search through the help, does it explain that the two Calculators are using a different behaviour?
In the help this is standard calculation:

To perform a simple calculation

1. Type the first number in the calculation.
2. Click + to add, - to subtract, * to multiply, or / to divide.
3. Type the next number in the calculation.
4. Type any remaining operators and numbers.
5. Click =.

And this is scientific

To perform a scientific calculation

1. On the View menu, click Scientific.
2. Click a number system.
3. Click the display size you want to use, and then continue with your calculation.

So...maybe scientist know the difference, but it would have been easier for "common user which doesn't know about operators priorities" to...explain th difference? :) You also said that you didn't know that was possible to make 3+4*5: you didn't know because it wasn't explained!

BTW, in my country bars and locals use quite much programs like Excel to make some calculus (about soccer, games and so on...)...and (of course) in that program there isn't a difference between common user and scientist: you type =3+4*5, and the result is correctly 23 :)...
I still don't see why the Calculator should have a different behavoiur based on the View...if there was a motive, why it's not explained (of course, for the common user ;))
Bye

LastHope

Simple calculator: http://thespoke.net/photos/runner/images/917955/original.aspx

If you type 3+4*5= on it - then * actually means =* - e.g. calculate the result of previous operatrion, and then multiply by next number. Standard Windows Calculator do the same. So where is the problem???

 

RunneR wrote:

Simple calculator: http://thespoke.net/photos/runner/images/917955/original.aspx If you type 3+4*5= on it - then * actually means =* - e.g. calculate the result of previous operatrion, and then multiply by next number. Standard Windows Calculator do the same. So where is the problem???

What were my doubts are expressed in my prevous messages, RunneR :))...I don't see the motive for making a calculator that uses 2 different logics in the same program:

--Simple calculators don't have enough memory, so it's alright that they cannot use operators priority

--Scientific calculators use operators priority

I think that a computer running Windows XP has enough power for using operators priority...but that's not the only problem: why making a program with 2 different logics (depending on the View you choosed) and...not telling, not explaining? That's nonsense, IMHO.

I believe the "standard view" is for smalltalkers. :) (3 + 4 * 5 is 35 in Smalltalk)